IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE STATE OF OREGON
IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF MULTNOMAH
CATHERINE CARTER, Petitioner,
vs.
RORY BOWMAN, Respondent.
Case No.: 0603-03051
Portland, Oregon
April 21, 2006
1:30 p.m.
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
BEFORE THE HONORABLE JUDGE TODD
MULTNOMAH COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
For the Petitioner: Robert Callahan, 405 NW 18th Avenue Portland, Oregon 97209, 503-228-0930
For the Respondent: Rory Bowman, pro se, P.O. Box 202, Vancouver, WA 98666, 360-695-6929
Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording; transcript produced by transcription service.
INDEX
OPENING STATEMENTS: PAGE
On behalf of Petitioner, by Robert Callahan 6
On behalf of Respondent, by Rory Bowman 8
WITNESSES FOR PETITIONER: DIRECT CROSS RE-DIRECT RE-CROSS
Catherine Carter p. 10 n/a n/a n/a
Kevin Balmer p.19 p.24 p.54 p.54
WITNESSES FOR RESPONDENT:
Rory Bowman p.28 p.41 N/A N/A
EXHIBITS: Marked Received
Petitioner’s 1 – 1999 Stalking Order request p.12 p.12
Respondent’s 101 – Chronology p.27 p.28
Respondent’s 102 – photo p.27 p.36
Respondent’s 103 – email excerpts p.28 p.28
Petitioner’s 2 – letter with envelope p.50 p.50
Petitioner’s 3 – package with address p.53 p.53
ARGUMENT: Mr. Callahan p.54
RESPONSE: Rory Bowman p.55
MR. CALLAHAN: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Robert Callahan 88026 – page two the bottom line – it’s Carter versus Bowman. I am here representing petitioner I see that respondent is in the courtroom as well. My estimate is 30 to 60 minutes. We have two witnesses.
THE COURT: Do we have lawyers on both sides or just – ?
MR. CALLAHAN: I don’t know if Respondent is represented or not.
MR. BOWMAN: No I am not. I am the respondent too?
THE COURT: So, Mr. Bowman, you have two witnesses?
MR. BOWMAN: No, No. Just myself.
THE COURT: OK
MR. CALLAHAN: I, I have two, Your Honor.
THE COURT: OK. Well, but are both sides ready to go today? If I can squeeze – I just don’t know. It depends on how many other cases I have but – OK. I’ll recall the case. Thank you for letting me know.
THE COURT: OK so let’s go ahead and get started. Catherine Carter and Rory Bowman. If everybody is ready on that case you can come forward. If there are enough chairs you can sit at the same table because we don’t have that many people so…just sit at opposite ends of the table will be fine. Is there another witness as well?
MR. CALLAHAN: Yes there is, Your Honor.
THE COURT: If they want to grab a chair somewhere close that’s fine. Yes sir?
MR. BOWMAN: How long will this take?
THE COURT: It’s hard to predict. It’s hard to predict.
MR. BOWMAN: Can I get a transcript of this?
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THE COURT: Yeah – we are recording everything. It’s on hard disk, so it’s not a windows media file but it is similar to an audio file. You can get a CD burned of that. I think they are going to charge you $5 or $10 or something like that. It takes a week or two to get a copy.
Alright. First of all, let’s make sure we have correct names and correct spellings. Is it Catherine with a “C”? C-A-T-H-E-R-I-N-E? Middle name L-Y-N-N-E? Last name Carter, C-A-R-T-E-R? And is the date of birth 2-25-77?
MS. CARTER: Yes.
THE COURT: And then, Mr. Bowman, we have two different spellings. So I want to…
MR. BOWMAN: The top one is correct.
THE COURT: R-O-R-Y. And the Middle name is G-R-E-Y, B-O-W-M-A-N?
MR. BOWMAN: Yes.
THE COURT: And uh 10-6-65?
MR. BOWMAN: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. And we’ve got a third witness here. What is your name sir?
MR. BALMER: Kevin
THE COURT: Kevin? And what is your last name sir?
MR. BALMER: Balmer. B-A-L-M-E-R.
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Balmer.
Let me explain briefly how a hearing works in case you folks haven’t seen one. It’s basically a miniature trial. I’ll make the uh petitioner, which is basically the plaintiff, bringing the case to go to court. Let them put on their evidence first. When each witness is done testifying the other side has the right of cross-examination which means you can ask questions. It doesn’t mean you should be cross like you see on TV. I don’t want people to argue with each other. It happens all the time. Because unless you are legally trained, especially if you are involved in the case emotionally, it is really easy to end up just arguing with the other person so don’t do that. But if you want to ask specific questions you can ask specific questions. Usually its yes or no kind of questions: “Isn’t it true your car is red?” “Isn’t it true that’s your signature?” “Isn’t it true you said ‘x,y,z’?” You can ask questions like that. But most of the time what people really want to do is tell me why they think the witness is wrong. So try not to argue with them. What you do is take notes. I encourage people to take notes so when the other witness is testifying you’re not so tempted to interrupt each other and that way when it is your turn to testify you don’t forget to say why you think they were wrong. So I will allow cross examination as long as it is appropriate but many times you just want to takes notes and tell me how you disagree.
Ok, Plaintiff, or Petitioner, puts on all her witnesses first and then we turn to the other side which is Respondent, or the Defendant, and you put on your witnesses. Sometimes we have to return to the other side for what’s called rebuttal. That’s when the one side brings up something the other side didn’t think of they get a chance to respond. We are fairly loose on the rules. I want everyone to say everything they want to say, we just have to have some order with that. When we are done with all the evidence then I will listen to argument from both sides as to what I should decide in the case and then I’ll reach a decision, I’ll give you a copy of that, and that will be the end of the case. Any questions?
Oh, one other thing. The documents, it’s very helpful, and I usually require you to show paperwork to the other side so that while we are testifying in court they can see what – oh and it’s helpful if you can get copies. And if there’s an objection to something I’ll try to rule on it before we actually bring it into evidence.
The other thing we often do in trials or hearings is what’s called an opening statement which is like a summary like a preview of what the evidence is going to be. That’s really hard to do unless you are experienced at it because you end up giving your whole case at opening. But if each side wants to give me a summary of what the dispute is about you can do that. When witnesses testify I suggest you try to go in chronological order and let me know from the very beginning how did you first meet this person, what was the relationship, what went wrong, when did things start happening. It helps me to do that. I don’t think that I specifically said this but I wanted to mention that what’s written in the petition I am not going to assume is true. One of the good things about our system is a different judge heard the case just to make sure there is enough evidence to have a hearing. But I am not that other Judge. You’ve got to start from scratch even though I read the files I’d like everyone to say everything out loud in court so we all know exactly what’s the issue. Any questions? OK.
Does Petitioner want to give an opening?
MR. CALLAHAN: Yes, Your Honor.
PETITIONER’S OPENING STATEMENT
MR. CALLAHAN: This is one of those cases that is going to go back in time. We are going to go back 9 almost 10 years, 1997. The Petitioner dated the Respondent’s brother and it was brief. They broke up and the Petitioner then began dating Respondent. They were students together at Reed College. This is actually the first contact I have had with respondent. And everything that I’ve read about him tells me that he’s intelligent, thoughtful. I believe he has a Masters degree, if not he’s close to a Masters degree I believe in woman’s studies. He’s very smart. He’s a computer technician, an IT person, and he appears to be articulate and very together. But we’re dealing with ex-lovers, if you will. Their relationship ended in under a year in 1998. There was a no contact request that was made by petitioner to respondent basically saying please leave me alone. This was made via email and petitioner retained an attorney. In 1999 when those requests were ignored there was a stalking order complaint filed. I have a copy of the judgment from that case. Ultimately after the hearing that matter was dismissed without the order issuing.
THE COURT: Mm-hmm
MR. CALLAHAN: The respondent and petitioners were the same parties, same names, in that action. Essentially respondent said, “I didn’t know my behavior was offensive and unwanted.” Now we have from 1999 to the present a series of back door third party contacts, escalating patterns of behavior that bring a great deal of stress to petitioner. The respondent has a history of depression, of medication, both on and off medication; this whole relationship is complicated by the fact that after petitioner broke up with the respondent’s brother he committed suicide. That death weighs heavily in this relationship. There’s a possibility that there is other drug use involved. There is some reference to it in one of the letters that he wrote. There have been death threats against third parties. There have been suicide threats by the respondent. My understanding that he is trained and experienced in martial arts and that he was an Army ranger in the military. That brings credibility to the threats.
There were attempts by the respondent to contact the petitioner through mail sent to her parents, through mail sent to her attorney and there’s an internet, it’s not a chat room, it’s kind of a society where people interact…
THE COURT: Mm-hmm.
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MR. CALLAHAN: …called the tribe. And there has been contact developed through that forum wherein the respondent discovered and intimate relationship with the petitioner’s current boyfriend and showed up at the screening of this movie and then totally unexpectedly showed up in the parking lot of his work outside his car. Before that time they really had no interaction at all. And as a result the petitioner is alarmed. She is frightened. She is worried that we are dealing with a possible murder-suicide situation given the mental issues here. She has made numerous credible attempts to communicate to the respondent that she doesn’t want anything to do with him. And in spite of that, again, we get a pattern of escalating behavior and contacts of a disturbing nature. So, the petitioner asks that this order be entered and that the respondent be told to “stay away.”
THE COURT: Thanks. Alright sir, you have the right to make an opening statement. Just a summary of what your issues are. I’ll give you a chance to give your whole case in a minute. But do you want to just give me a summary of what your position is?
RESPONDENT’S OPENING STATEMENT
MR. BOWMAN: I was born and raised here in Portland; I’ve lived here my entire life. I don’t have any reason to believe that petitioner’s fear is not authentic. But I don’t believe any of my actions would cause a reasonable person to be fearful. Portland is not a very large town. We are both of uh, similar age and similar interests. Actually I periodically see the petitioner around town, more often than not but I usually avoid it. So, I believe that there is no escalation and while the contact is not wanted I have made efforts to respect those wishes and a reasonable person would not be fearful.
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The gist of the 1999 hearing, and I don’t have the case number here, is that the Judge told me not to be a jerk. And told the petitioner that a reasonable person wouldn’t be fearful and I was instructed to contact her via letter to the lawyer if I was to do that which is basically what I’ve done until the lawyer disappeared.
THE COURT: I see.
MR. BOWMAN: Yeah, and that’s over a period of years and years. And that’s covered on the yellow sheet which is the chronology.
THE COURT: Okay, so we’ll talk about that later.
OK. I’ll go ahead with the first witness unless we need to do something with that other case.
Um, Mr. Williams? I want to give you plenty of time to review the documents. Do you need some more time to look at those? I am just going to go witness by witness on this other case and give you a chance to…do you still want to go through those?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes.
THE COURT: OK. Then I’ll go ahead with the first witness on this case. Um, go ahead. With, Ms. Carter then?
MR. CALLAHAN: Catherine Carter.
THE COURT: Okay, Ms. Carter, please stand for a moment and raise your right hand.
CATHERINE CARTER, PETITIONER’S WITNESS, SWORN
THE COURT: Go ahead.
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DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CALLAHAN:
Q. Let’s go back to before you met the Respondent. You were a student at Reed College is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And about what time was that?
A. I arrived at Reed in August of 1994. I met the respondent a few days later when my car was broken into. And as part of his job as a campus security office he came and looked at my car and filed a report with campus security.
Q. And I assume over the next couple of years you had just passing acquaintance with him.
A. Yes, we were both members of a student group on campus and I saw him through that group.
Q. And at some point in time you began dating his brother Marcus, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Ok, and uh, was Marcus a student at Reed?
A. No he was not.
Q. Ok and, and, a point to clarify I want to make was respondent a student at Reed?
A. No, he an alumnus and worked with campus security.
Q. And, there were a lot of intense and personal feelings that resulted after Marcus’ suicide, right?
A. Correct.
Q. Just for chronological help, you began seeing Marcus in 1997?
A. It was the summer after my sophomore year which uh, 94, 95, yes, 97.
Q. Ok. And about how long did that relationship last?
A. It was over, I believe by September 1997.
Q. And then soon after that you began dating respondent.
A. Yes.
Q. And how long did that relationship last?
A. I moved out in late February of 1998. And that was basically the end of that relationship.
Q. And when did the respondent’s brother Marcus commit suicide?
A. Uh, it was right before Easter in 1997.
Q. So after your relationship with respondent ended, what sort of communications did you have with him regarding your desire for contact?
A. I felt that I had made it pretty clear that I didn’t want to talk to him. And he didn’t take it seriously. He sent a multiple-choice quiz to my house with a pencil in it so that I could indicate my contact wishes on this form and mail it back to him. Which I did not do.
Q. When you said that you made your wishes clear, do you have any specific examples of how you may have communicated that to him?
A. I believe I told him directly over the phone. Um, after the note incident. I was starting to become alarmed and I didn’t want to meet with him in person. I had an acquaintance who was an attorney and she agreed that she would meet with him on my behalf and explain to him that I didn’t want to hear from him and that he should leave me alone. And at, I can’t testify to what was said at that meeting but um, the behavior escalated and that is what brought me here for the first hearing.
Q. What was it about the contact that caused you alarm? (2:38:55)
A. In one incident Mr. Bowman used a key that he had for my vehicle and apparently drove it to his house, loaded a sofa in the back that some friends of mine had given me when I was living with him. He placed on the passenger seat a package he sent to my parents’ house that I asked them to return to sender and in that package there was a letter stating that he was putting his house in order, and that phrase disturbed me in light of his brother’s suicide . And that was the incident that prompted my bringing my first stalking complaint.
Q. So, so you said that even after your friend the attorney had a meeting with that the contacts continued.
A. Yes.
Q. OK. I have a copy here of what appears to be the original stalking complaint. Does that look like the correct one?
A. Yes.
Q. And, and, in it you make certain allegations about the then respondents’ behavior…
THE COURT: Excuse me just a sec. Excuse me just a sec. Gentlemen, is there some problem?
MR. WILLIAMS: No. <inaudible> (related to another case on the docket)
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Excuse me.
MR. CALLAHAN: I am marking these items. I’d offer this into evidence.
(Petitioner’s Exhibit 1 marked for identification and received into evidence.)
Q. When you filed that complaint in 1999 did it go to a hearing similar to this one?
A. It did.
Q. Ok, and at that hearing did respondent testify?
A. He did.
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Q. And what was his response to your suggestion that you were alarmed by his behavior and you had asked him not to contact you?
A. He basically expressed that he didn’t understand why we had broken up and he didn’t…my understanding of what he said was the he feels or felt at that time there is some answer I could give him that would allow him to resolve the end of this relationship. And, that he just felt that he was trying to get that resolution and that was the reason for the ongoing contact.
Q. The result of that hearing was that the Judge did not continue the stalking order, is that correct?
A. That is correct. At the time Mr. Bowman was teaching elementary school and he specifically told the judge that he worked in the schools and he didn’t want this kind of complaint on his record.
Q. Was there any suggestion by the judge that Mr. Bowman refrain further contact?
A. That, that is certainly my recollection of what the judge verbally stated at the end of the case. He asked Mr. Bowman to return my car key to my attorney, and my understanding from what he said was that the judge told him to leave me alone.
Q. Has Mr. Bowman the respondent spoken to you at all about his mental state?
A. I haven’t spoken with him since the last time I was in a court room with him. Before that when we were involved he talked about suicide as a philosophical issue. He mentioned it a lot. He’s a creative person, he’s a writer. It is my opinion that he may suffer from depression. I believe from my interaction with him, I believe he has a temperament that is compulsive and erratic and an anger management problem.
Q. Has he ever in your presence made death threats against anyone?
A. Yes
Q. And, can you give us an example?
A. Before we were involved Mr. Bowman was married to a woman named [Kimberly Rhiannon]. She began an affair and, on multiple occasions. Mr. Bowman talked about killing her boyfriend, a gentleman named [Kaleb]. He posted an acrostic poem using the letters of this man’s name that began with the line “Killing is too good for this adulterer”. He at one point mentioned to me decapitating this man with a shovel, specifically mentioning that he would do it from the back of the neck to the front to leave a ragged edge on the severed head. I find that really disturbing.
Q. Sometimes in life people make threats that they not only don’t have the intent to carry out but don’t have the capacity. Is there anything about Mr. Bowman that makes you think he has the capacity to carry out such threats?
A. I believe that he does. I have seen him angry. I don’t believe that he is entirely in control of himself when he is angry. I have seen him rip a pair of pants that he was wearing to shreds and he is trained in a number of different martial arts. I believe he has the training and physical capacity to do pretty much anything he wants.
Q. Has he ever made any statements to you that he is on medication for his mental health?
A. There is a, what I would classify as a vague reference in a letter that is here in court today. In that letter he also, I, I don’t have a specific threat of him doing something to me but he talks about doing something rash and, given the history of the situation, that disturbs me.
Q. We’ve been talking about things that happened quite a while ago in time. I suggested to the judge that Mr. Bowman has engaged in a pattern of escalating behavior. Are there things that have happened more recently regarding Mr. Bowman either contacting you directly or through friend or attempting to contact you?
A. The most recent presence of him in my world has been on the tribe.net Internet service.
Q. Just very briefly would you explain to the court what tribe.net is? I tried, I don’t know why…
THE COURT: Is it like MySpace or something…?
MS. CARTER: Exactly. I have a profile on that service that I use both to connect with my friends and for business purposes. And I noticed that Mr. Bowman had signed on to that service. It has a feature where you can have a group of friends, and Mr. Bowman was apparently on the friends list of people that I knew. I immediately removed those people from my friends list and placed Mr. Bowman on “Ignore” so that if he tried to send me a message I wouldn’t receive it. And when he was on the service his avatar icon wouldn’t appear. Also, I immediately put up a note that I sent out on a global thing to everyone that I know that said there is somebody on this service who shouldn’t have my contact information. Please just don’t give out my contact information out to anyone on this service without talking to me first.
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I don’t want to ruin this guy’s life. I just want to respect his privacy as much as I can. I just want to be left alone.
Q. Have there been attempts that you are aware of by Mr. Bowman to try to contact you for instance through the mail or through third parties other than on tribe.net?
A. Yes. Um, there’s a letter also here in court today. In my capacity as a dress maker and costumer there is a woman named Eleanor Friedberg. At one point Mr. Bowman sent a letter to me care of my parents with a return address of my name care of Eleanor Friedberg, and then her address. Additionally she was doing a performance that I had made a costume for her for that , and Mr. Bowman was going to videotape of. She specifically told him that I was going to be there and didn’t tell me that he was going to be there because she felt that if I knew he was going to be there I wouldn’t go. And that was the last time I was in a room with him.
The most recent thing that happened that is really the reason we are here today is the contact between Mr. Bowman and Mr. Balmer.
Q. Which is <inaudible>, To your knowledge since the 1998 message sent through your friend the attorney, have you ever um, suggested in any way to Mr. Bowman or others that time has passed and you don’t mind reconnecting?
A. Absolutely not. I have moved to make sure, well to do my best to make sure he doesn’t have my address; I have an unlisted phone number; I don’t promote my business because I don’t want him to somehow acquire my contact information. Um, I have tried to make it as difficult as possible as possible for him to find me without leaving the place that has been my home for the last almost 12 years.
Q. And in spite of that, he has continued to somehow make contact?
A. Yes.
Q. Why is it that you feel your physical safety is threatened by Mr. Bowman?
A. There are two parts of that. The first one is that I believe if you are going to do violence to another person you first have to establish that they are not a person with rights and feelings, and I think that you have to diminish them before you can take that next step. The fact that Mr. Bowman repeatedly violates my wishes, invades my privacy, involves my family and loved ones. I feel that if he saw me as a whole person with rights he’d probably leave me alone. I think that’s what a sane person would do in that situation.
That being said I also feel that if he aggresses against me I don’t really feel like I’ve got a chance. I’ve taken self defense classes but I am not really interested in martial arts. I don’t want to devote years of my life to trying to be able to defend myself against something I don’t know is going to happen. It seems like a waste of energy. At the same time I have done what I can to try to protect myself. He’s going to argue that my fear isn’t rational and reasonable. I feel that his repeated harassment isn’t reasonable and that it I can’t imagine how this behavior would be anything but alarming to any other person in my situation.
Q. You said “if he aggresses against you” you would have a hard time defending yourself. What makes you feel like he has an intent towards aggressiveness?
A. I feel that he has somehow gotten it into his head that I can answer for him the question of why the relationship ended and I don’t have that answer. And the continued contact and the continued coercion of trying to get this answer that I don’t have is, I just don’t know where it’s going to stop. I can’t give him what he wants and I don’t. I’m sorry. May I have a minute?
Q. Would you like some water?
A. Yes, please. Thank you.
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A. I feel that the ongoing contact and his current escalation points to escalation and that is particularly why I am concerned for my personal safety.
Q. When you talk about recent escalation, do you include Mr. Bowman’s contact with Mr. Balmer?
A. I do.
Q. And how, how did that affect you?
A. It was extremely upsetting. I have been, I don’t, I lived with Mr. Balmer for about a year and a half and I don’t feel comfortable at his house. I have to assume that Mr. Bowman has determined where Mr. Balmer lives. It’s made me concerned for his safety. It’s made me concerned for my safety.
Q. That’s all, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Alright. As I mentioned earlier Mr. Bowman you have the right of cross-examination if they are very specific focused questions. If they are things you just disagree with her about then you should just tell me directly. Do you have specific questions for this witness?
MR. BOWMAN: Um, I, let’s see, I would disagree with the technical aspects of the death threat against Mr. Naholi.
THE COURT: OK. Well you can talk about that when it’s your turn. One question I have so I would be clear on the time frame of some of these incidents. The internet, um, tribe site, when did that happen?
MS. CARTER: Um, that was I believe January of this year.
THE COURT: of this um, of 2006? OK. Were there other incidents in the past several years? Because I heard about the history, I’m just a little blurred as to exactly where they fit.
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MS. CARTER: There are post marks on the letters from 2002 and 2003. Um, I um, I believe that I, I’m not certain about the date of the dance performance, I believe it was 2001.
THE COURT: Okay. But in terms of the past two years the, the main issues you are focusing on are this internet issue and the contact with Mr. Balmer?
MS. CARTER: Yes.
THE COURT: Those are the two things that happened in the past two years?
MS. CARTER: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to clarify what that was. Um, anymore questions for this witness?
MR. CALLAHAN: No. Not for this witness.
THE COURT: Okay. Let’s move onto the next witness then.
MR. CALLAHAN: We call Kevin Balmer.
THE COURT: Mr. Balmer, would you stand up for a moment? Please raise your right hand.
KEVIN BALMER, PETITIONER’S WITNESS, SWORN
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CALLAHAN:
Q. Mr. Balmer, what do you do for a living?
A. I am an application support analyst with geographic information systems for a national communication firm.
Q. Where is that physically located?
A. That’s located at 21st and Savier, Northwest Portland.
Q. And um, how, how long have you known Ms. Carter?
A. I believe that Ms. Carter and I began seeing each other in April or May of 2004.
Q. Prior to that time did you have any knowledge or interaction with Mr. Bowman?
A. No. None.
Q. Is it fair to say that the only way you know of Mr. Bowman is through your relationship with Ms. Carter?
A. That would be fair.
Q. Um, in addition to your employment you also have an avocation, do you not?
A. Uh, excuse me?
Q. Something else you enjoy doing?
A. Uh, I do film and stuff.
Q. To the best of your recollection, when was the first time that you knew that you were having any sort of interaction with Mr. Bowman?
A. Let me check here… to be accurate. Um, he sent me a message through the tribe service stating that he was interested in coming to see uh, a film that I had produced that was playing at the Portland State Theatre. He <inaudible> and I can’t recall specifically when but it probably would have been sometime in early December this last year.
Q. Of 2005?
A. That’s correct.
Q. And at the time that you received that message did you have any idea of who he was?
A. I was aware of Mr. Bowman’s presence on the tribe service, and I believe it was just kind of a random chance that we discovered that we had perhaps seen his presence prior to that but it was it probably would have been a few weeks prior to his first contact with me.
Q. And, with that contact, that presence on tribe, was he identified as Rory Bowman?
A. If I recall correctly his name on tribe was just Rory. R-O-R-Y.
Q. Was there some point where you made the connection to this Rory on the internet and Rory Bowman of Cate Carter’s past?
A. I don’t believe so, not until there was some discussion between Cate and I about his presence being on tribe but I wasn’t aware of who he was.
Q. Was there an incident that occurred back at the showing at the film?
A. Um, there was no encounter on that day that I recall. He did compliment me on my film shortly after, which indicated to me that he was actually there.
Q. Did you have another occasion where you had an interaction, a physical interaction with Mr. Bowman?
A. Yea – there was an incident a few weeks ago, perhaps a couple of months ago, I can’t recall what date it was at this point but it was a kind of random encounter. I didn’t expect him to sort of confront me or engage me where I work. I’m not even quite sure how he knew where I worked. And that again was probably a couple of months ago now.
Q. Could you describe for the court what happened at that um, confrontation?
A. Again, I‘ll try to recall as best I can. I got out of my vehicle and Rory was perhaps maybe 30 or 40 feet away. He just sort of appeared in a way. I didn’t see him as I went to park the vehicle.
Q. Ok. So let me stop you. You were arriving at work?
A. That’s correct.
Q. And is it a company parking lot?
A. It is. It’s a rather large one. I don’t know if you know northwest Portland it’s a huge, several big lots of parking spaces for the CNF on <inaudible> for employees.
Q. Ok. So, I interrupted you as you were beginning to tell the court what happened. I just wanted to set the scene, location of where it was.
THE COURT: Okay. What time do you get to work?
MR. BALMER: Uh, this is probably sometime around 9 in the morning.
THE COURT: Okay.
A. Again, I can’t recall specifically the dialogue how it went exactly, but Rory introduced himself and really kind of moved from A to B very quickly saying something to the effect like “I think you probably know who I am um, and there are some things that uh, I would really like to talk to you about, regarding some issues that have happened between Cate and I in the past.” He continued to follow me as I made my way toward the building.
Q. Did you indicate to him at any way that this was awkward or uncomfortable or conversation that you know that you really hadn’t planned on having with him at the time?
A. Well I am a very accommodating person and again I didn’t really know specifically what the history was between my girlfriend Cate and Rory. But I was aware that there was quite a bit of tension and so I wanted to give him an opportunity really to engage me but I have to confess that I wasn’t really responsive in any of his offers to have a dialogue, either in person or on the internet.
Q. Have there been other overtures by Mr. Bowman toward you to converse about his relationship with Ms. Carter?
A. No there were not.
Q. Have you had any sort of indication from him that that’s his desire?
A. None specifically, no.
Q. Ok. Can we go back to the parking lot? Again I interrupted that. I apologize. Last I remember you said that he approached you as you were exiting your vehicle around 9:00 a.m. and heading, I assume, toward work.
A. That’s right.
Q. Can you, can you pick up from that point and describe to the Court what happened?
A. Again, there was really kind of a quick assumption or quick jump from A to B, that I was aware of a lot of the history between him and Ms. Carter. And so I was really not able to kind of process some of the things that he was trying to tell me. It was a little bit unusual, hearing, and that is part of the reason I am really having kind of a hard time trying to recall kind of the exact language.
Q. Is it common for you to be approached by people in the parking lot at 9 o’clock in the morning on the way to work?
A. It’s not common at all.
Q. And, did you find it somewhat alarming?
A. I did, actually.
Q. Uh, did you have questions running through your mind like, you know, like “why is this guy here?” and “how did he find me?”
A. Well, I did actually think that it was quite odd because as it became obvious that Rory was making some attempt to sort of be in some part of her life um, and we needed to talk about what that looked like. I got exposure to Cate’s feelings about her fears related to all of this and so, aside from sort of the kind of the unpredictability, the feelings of unpredictability about his character as described by Cate. That was pretty much the extent that I was just a little bit alarmed, a little bit surprised to see that. It was a very strange encounter.
Q. Was there anything about his overtures that, that you took as threatening, either directly or overtly to you regarding your relationship with Ms. Carter?
A. No there weren’t, really.
Q. Have you had any other interaction with Mr. Bowman since that time?
A. No I’ve not.
MR. CALLAHAN: Nothing further.
THE COURT: Alright. Your cross examination. Any questions for this witness?
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. BOWMAN:
Q. Yeah. A question. Mr. Balmer, you said the first contact with me you are aware of on tribe was in regard to the film. Was there any contact before that, do you recall?
A. I don’t believe there was.
Q. Were you aware of um, Ms. Carter’s citywide broadcast email on the 3rd or 4th of December?
A. I wasn’t. I don’t believe she stated that that was something she was planning to do. I actually just saw it up there.
Q. The PDX tribe, general Portland broadcast.
THE COURT: What was this? This email? Was it an email or uh, the witness can tell us if he knows what…
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MR. BALMER: She actually referenced it earlier in her testimony. She referenced that she put up a posting to um, I don’t believe it was citywide, it really, it basically went to all the people in her address book that she has connections to.
THE COURT: In the tribe thing?
MR. BALMER: Yup.
THE COURT: Okay. What was it about?
MR. BOWMAN: This is the email she referenced, the message she referenced where she didn’t want anybody giving out any of her personal information: um, where she lived, phone numbers, to anyone that might come to her looking for it.
THE COURT: Oh.
MR. BOWMAN: I may have a copy of that Your Honor. Yes I do. I have two copies of it. There is the first version as originally posted and the second version and one of them was posted under her name and the second was posted under an alias, “Invisigoth,” which is relevant.
THE COURT: Mm-hmm
MR. BOWMAN: And, is this the appropriate time to mention this?
THE COURT: Well, sure, I, I think right now you are asking the witness questions , so we’ll let him look at that exhibit and he can tell us what he knows about it.
MR. BOWMAN: Because the reason I am asking Mr. Balmer this question is because this incident happened at the beginning of December. The invitation and the film invite happened at the beginning of January, is my recollection. So that’s like a month between them. And that…
THE COURT: Let’s just let the witness respond to this. Do you recognize those?
MR. BALMER: Yes I do.
THE COURT: And those are the messages or whatever you want to call them from, from her to the people in the tribe group?
MR. BALMER: That’s correct.
THE COURT: And what do they say? Just basically or you can read the whole thing back.
MR. BALMER: Uh, It’s very brief, Your Honor. If you want…
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. BALMER: OK. “Dear Family, an individual has popped up on tribe in the last few weeks who should not have access to my contact information due to multiple instances of unwanted contact. Please, Please, Please do not give out my phone number or address to anyone on tribe. Anyone with a genuine need to contact me can do so through tribe.” That’s basically it.
THE COURT: Okay. So, sir, your main point is the timing of those…
MR. BOWMAN: Also the distribution of these was, the way tribe works is a social networking site. When you post something you post it to groups you are part of and there is a group that is citywide called PDX and that is actually where my girlfriend saw this and asked me about it because she knew who Cate was. So, basically it went out all of Portland and I, and that’s…
THE COURT: Do you have any other questions for this witness?
MR. BOWMAN: No, I just wanted to establish the time, uh, the timeline of the initial contact.
THE COURT: Okay. Anything else for this witness?
MR. CALLAHAN: None.
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THE COURT: Alright. Any more evidence for the petitioner? Any more documents or other testimony?
MR. CALLAHAN: I’m sorry, not at this time.
THE COURT: Okay. So, Petitioner rests at this point. So what that means is now it’s your turn. They are done with their evidence and you can proceed however you want to. Obviously you can testify yourself. You had something you gave to the clerk and unless there is an objection, I’ll look at that while you testify – is that your summary?
MR. BOWMAN: Yes: Three pieces of paper. The yellow one is a chronology, which I’ll start out with and you can look at that. Basically because there are lots of people and lots of dates over quite a bit of time.
THE COURT: Okay. Just a second. Oh, I see. Yeah, we’ll give them numbers right now and then we can ok…let’s go ahead and give these things numbers right now.
MR. BOWMAN: The yellow one is the first one.
(Respondent’s Exhibit 101 marked for identification.)
THE COURT: Then what’s your next one?
Mr. BOWMAN: The next one is a picture of Mr. Ballmer –
THE COURT: OK. That’s the one page on the green paper – a photograph…
(Respondent’s Exhibit 102 marked for identification.)
MR. BOWMAN: And the next one is four pages. Excerpts…
THE COURT: Looks like an email or a letter something
MR. BOWMAN: Yeah.
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THE COURT: Okay. And it’s about four pages. Okay so I’ll staple that together.
(Respondent’s Exhibit 103 marked for identification.)
THE COURT: Are there any objections to these being offered.
MR. CALLAHAN: I do object to 102 but have no objection to 101 or 103.
(Respondent’s Exhibits 101 and 103 received into evidence.)
THE COURT: I’ll wait to hear more about 102. OK, sir. Thank you Mr. Bowman. That way I can follow along with what you’re talking about. 101 is received. Let me take a look at this because it might help me understand. Um… Oh, ok. Okay, I thank you. Now I have a better idea of what you’re talking about. Go ahead.
DIRECT EXAMINATION/TESTIMONY BY RORY BOWMAN:
A. Uh, let’s see. Basically things are pretty much in accordance with Ms. Carter’s testimony as far as the timeline. I believe she actually dated my brother in the summer of 1996, about a year, a little bit less than a year before my brother’s death by suicide. The other things were the last normal contact we had before the court hearing was in April of ‘98 in her apartment when she invited me over. The address of which I did not know until she called and invited me over. I it’s technically very easy for me to get these things but, yeah…
THE COURT: Oh, I’m sorry. I usually do it at the beginning of a hearing without…thank you.
RORY BOWMAN, RESPONDENT’S WITNESS, SWORN
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THE COURT: I’m sorry. I usually swear all the witnesses when we start and I didn’t do that. I’m sorry.
A. So the other big difference on the chronology so there was a little bit more time between them not, them being breaking up and the death of my brother Marcus. And in 1999, when Ms. Carter had moved out from my house in February of 1998 there were a variety of small items Ms. Carter said she wanted. For example, the only one I remember with any clarity was a small ceramic rice bowl that a small jade plant was in. And those were the items that I had mailed down to her in August 1998 that were returned to me.
THE COURT: Those were in the box?
A. Yes, that was the box. And I felt I was um, she had asked me to return these things and I had done so and the package was returned refused and that’s when I was admittedly a jerk and I said, “I’ve got this ugly couch in my living room and you’re refusing the stupid bowls” that I’ve been saving. And my reference to, she mentioned I was putting my house in order. I was literally cleaning house and finding various small items like that bowl that she had asked me to return. So the sequence in 1999 is I, which is sort of a question mark because I am unsure of the dates here in the second <inaudible>, but she had asked me to mail her things back which I did and she sent back refused which struck me as just really…it annoyed me more than it should which is when I “stole” her car to take her back her couch. It’s like “Look, you wanted me to do you a favor. I’ve been paying for this couch. Now get out of my hair.” That’s when she interpreted that as a threat. It wasn’t unwanted contact. I thought I was helping her out. The judge’s verbal order at that time was to return the car key through the other lawyer, and if I had anything further to say do so through the lawyer. <Inaudible> because she didn’t want any further contact. So, that’s established. It wasn’t not to know anything about her or anything like that: it’s just if you need to contact her do it through the lawyer. So, I did that over the years. I believe there were some letters that were sent to her lawyer. Her lawyer I believe stopped practicing or moved or something.
THE COURT: Who’s the lawyer?
MR. BOWMAN: The lawyer was Nancy Cooper.
THE COURT: I think she is doing corporate now. Oh, yea. Yea she’s <inaudible>. Did she have blond hair?
MR. BOWMAN: It’s a long time ago, I don’t…
THE COURT: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know <inaudible> but I know who they are.
A. Anyway, so, in keeping with the judge’s verbal instruction I’ve done that. Um, she had left and the letters bounced. It is my custom um, with people I’ve known for a long time, every year just to send a birthday card. For example Ms. Carter mentioned a February ‘03 letter I happened to be out of state, and in her complaint she said it was an out of state postmarked with return address and blah, blah, blah. Based on the earlier package being returned I did not want to use my own address because I knew that would annoy me, so I used the address of a person I knew , who knew her and who I mentioned inside the letter so she wouldn’t be freaked out by it. So if she marked the letter refused I wouldn’t have to hear about it. I wouldn’t get annoyed, and I already mentioned that that person had told me about her, so it seemed a logical choice. Just a mutual acquaintance. So that letter was one of three. I sent three birthday letters that day. I kept copies of them. And the birthday letter I wrote is on page 104 of 103.
THE COURT: Three letters all…
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A. The first one uh, the first one was 19 February. The letter to Ms. Carter turned into evidence where she seemed to indicate I was off my medication and um uh, what was the words she said? And the reason I, since I already had this custom of writing letters to people, the other letters I wrote were to a fellow I’ve known since 4th grade and to someone I went to college with in the 80’s, that day. So I decided that if I were to have any contact with Ms. Carter I would do it in the form of a letter to her lawyer on her birthdays. Just to establish something arbitrary that would not be related to anything, you know, about my emotional health. I have written and done a lot of psychological therapy around the death of my brother and so forth but yeah. So, anyway, that was the letter, the letter I sent to her through a mutual acquaintance and a client of hers. Actually the mutual acquaintance, her client and I were romantically involved that year, and there were several times Ms. Carter was at the house and did now know that I was there. So that was sort of the shitty thing on the part of the mutual acquaintance.
I’ve had plenty of opportunity to find Ms. Carter if I’d wanted to find her. I don’t believe there is anything that she can give me, and I want to establish that. I don’t mean any ill will, but after she had, she had freaked out about that letter I sent to our mutual acquaintance and then when I had joined tribe.net. The timeline becomes important here because 102 becomes relevant here because I have a computer consulting business and, like Ms. Carter, one of the ways if you are a small business person in the modern age to get business contacts is to do networking. I had a client who suggested I sign up on tribe because the sort of people who are creative types are there.
THE COURT: Mm-hmm
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A. And I do Macintosh computers including film, video editing and stuff. So that seemed a logical thing. In fact, someone who knows Ms. Carter is a client of mine and actually I know Mr. Balmer because I was a tech writer with a fellow who was in the same graduate program, and I know of Mr. Balmer from KBOO radio and a project he worked on. I was a tech writer with James Gill who was on your master’s project. So, I knew of him. Portland’s not a big town.
<inaudible>
MR. BOWMAN: Yea, <laughing>. Hey, wait a minute!
A. Um, anyway so I had joined tribe in November. In mid-November, because I left tribe I don’t have the exact date but it was sometime in mid-November. Um, the reason that’s relevant is because I had seen Ms Carter tribe. I had joined tribe in early November, looking for new clients, I was active on the Macintosh boards, making my expertise known. I had seen Ms. Carter there but I ignored her. I’d seen her around town periodically. I saw her at Alberta art street walk, saw her downtown, saw her for a dance event, saw her once getting out of a car down down off MLK. You just see people around Portland if you are paying attention. Anyway, so I saw her there and ignored her.
I’d been on tribe for a few weeks when she posted the previous, citywide thing about how someone has shown up here and don’t give out my information. Tribe is, in addition to being a social networking and a business networking site, it is also a primary dating site. Lots of people go on tribe to find romantic partners. It seems inconceivable to me that an attractive woman in her 20s or 30s would have to tell anyone not to give out her personal address or phone number in that environment. It didn’t make sense. That she was sending out a citywide thing saying don’t do this common sense thing. It just struck me as odd.
When I first saw Ms. Carter on tribe she was on under her own name. I was also under my own name. On tribe you have a long name and a short name. By default your short name is your first name and your long name is your full name. Um, my long name was “Rory Bowman” and my short name was “Rory” to establish that. I was there under my own name. As a business person, it doesn’t help people to find me as a business person if they don’t know what my name and phone number are. So I had seen her under her name at the time and I had ignored her. After she did the citywide notice my girlfriend, who only knew of Cate from me having talked about her, asked me if I contacted her. Because, actually, my girlfriend saw the notice first before I did. Because she was also on tribe. She was like “what? What have you been up to?” I said “I didn’t do nothing.” (laughing)
Shortly after that Ms. Carter changed her name to “Invisigoth”. And Invisigoth is a relevant name in this case because it is from an X-Files episode which was, ironically, one of the last things that Ms. Carter and I had watched just before she moved out. And we had, we both admired the genius of the name at that point. And she told me at that point, “Oh, if I never need to have a code name I’m going to use ‘Invisigoth’” and we laughed about it.
So, in December when Ms. Carter posted a citywide notice saying something which should have been common sense which got the date I arrived on tribe wrong and then promptly changed her name to Invisigoth. I was like, “Ok this, it doesn’t make sense that if she’s afraid of me that she would posting personal information on the web.” I’d also seen, she occasionally does shows for her business. She does shows and things like that. I know some other artists who she’s been involved in shows with and I think I’ve read about some of her shows in like the free papers, like the Mercury, Just Out, things like that.
So it didn’t make sense to me that she was doing this. But I thought, and this is in early December. Okay it could be a message, and it could be nothing: I’m going to continue ignoring her. I asked some people who knew both if us what they thought and their general opinion was that she was looking for attention and I shouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole. They said stay away from it, that she’s bad news, so I thought that.
Shortly after that happened, Exhibit 102. Mr. Balmer changed his icon, the picture that shows who he is on the tribe service, to a picture of him pointing a pistol at the camera. And I happen to be on another board Mr. Balmer was on that had a fairly finite number of people on it – a masculinity board called Shiva’s Circle. When I saw the new icon I thought it was someone new who had joined the board. “Ok, let’s see who this is” and I poked on it and it was Mr. Balmer. I had heard about his work on the diggable city project, on KBOO radio and I knew someone else who was involved on that project. And I saw that okay, wait: he just changed his icon. It was actually he had changed his icon from his icon to the new icon so I thought it was a different person and I looked at that and then I read about it and realized that this was a boyfriend. Because he had written a testimonial on Valentine’s Day about how he loved her and so…
THE COURT: On tribe?
MR. BOWMAN: On tribe, yes.
A. A good deal, because they’re on tribe and a good deal of their social circle is presumably on tribe, there’s a lot of information about their personal lives on tribe, and their schedules…
THE COURT: So you are offering this 102 to show <inaudible>
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MR. BOWMAN: The reason it is relevant is because it happened on basically the same day Ms. Carter changed her name to Invisigoth, so I thought the two were related. Which is why I thought it was relevant to establish when Mr. Balmer became aware of me.
THE COURT: So what did you take this to mean?
MR. BOWMAN: I took it to mean: I didn’t know what to make of it. It was at one end of this. I mean, an ordinary person, I suppose might take it as threatening. And I thought it might be intended as threatening. “Hey, you showed up and you’re threatening my friend” and you know, “Watch it, buddy”. But given my background, a skinny guy in a fur coat and cowboy hat pointing a pistol at me you know, it’s not. (laugh). It might be useful as rhetoric.
THE COURT: So your testimony is that this is definitely linked to Mr. Bowman?
MR. BOWMAN: Mr. Balmer, yeah. And it happened to correspond exactly with Ms. Carter’s changing her name to Invisigoth so I thought they were related.
THE COURT: Mr. Callahan, do you still have an objection to 102?
MR. CALLAHAN: I do, Your Honor.
THE COURT: What’s the basis of the objection?
MR. CALLAHAN: I don’t think it is relevant and I think its prejudicial.
MR. BOWMAN: I would argue that it is relevant. Can I do that?
THE COURT: Yea
MR. BOWMAN: I would argue that it is relevant because it is part of what I took to be a pattern of backdoor contact with me. When I initially came on tribe it was for clients. It didn’t make sense for Ms. Carter to post so publicly about the fact that I was on tribe. Then Mr. Balmer changed his icon to this. Shortly after that: on tribe one can post information about events and invite people to events.
THE COURT: Mm-hmm
MR. BOWMAN: And when you invite people to events you can ask for an RSVP like you would send to a party. In early January, Mr. Balmer sent out an announcement of his film and invited me, requesting RSVP.
THE COURT: Is that sent out to a whole group of people or just you?
MR. BOWMAN: Well, I was new to tribe. I didn’t understand exactly. For example I didn’t know about the ignore list, I didn’t know about a bunch of other things that Ms. Carter has mentioned. But it’s the first time I had ever received an invitation on tribe after about a month and a half, two months ago, and I initially thought it was a personal invitation from Mr. Balmer to me requesting an R.S.V.P. And I thought “OK, she showed up and sent a thing that didn’t make sense; He changed his picture. Now he’s inviting me to a public event.” I thought it might be an overture to check it out or what not. I R.S.V.P.’d immediately said I would be there. There was an R.S.V.P. list, I was number 3. Ms. Carter was number 4. Ms. Carter R.S.V.P.’d after I had R.S.V.P.’d to this public screening. And why this is relevant is because I thought it might be some sort of approachment. You know it’s been almost 10 years. So, I thought, “OK her boyfriend’s inviting me to a film. I’ll go.” So I went to the film…
(Respondent’s exhibit 102 entered into evidence)
THE COURT: The parties can argue as to its significance, but I think there is sufficient relevance based on what I’ve heard so far.
A. So, anyway, so I went to this film screening. I made a point to RSVP. I told Mr. Balmer that I would be bringing my current girlfriend because, given the previous citywide notice, she had a stake in this. I sat halfway down on an aisle seat so I was clearly visible during the screening so, if it was some sort of approachment or reconciliation meeting, I would be clearly visible. If Ms. Carter wanted to come in or if Mr. Balmer wanted to see me I was basically in the most obvious, vulnerable, you-could-see-me and I-would-not-see you position in the theater. They made no contact. I enjoyed the film, so I sent Mr. Balmer a note afterward telling him I enjoyed the film, telling him I had heard about the project, and basically encouraging him that it was good work. So he wouldn’t think I hadn’t gone there, and then shortly after that I decided that it had pretty much not been an overture and Ms. Carter’s citywide thing had pretty much poisoned that pond as far as business – because each of them had like hundreds of friends on tribe and Portland’s not a very large town – so if they are talking about me it was going to get around quickly and I don’t need that kind of business. So I left tribe. I left the service. I came here for clients. It’s high school drama. I’m outta here. I don’t need clients that bad. It’s not worth my time. So I left and, so it wouldn’t look like I was skulking out, I left the service on Ms., Carter’s birthday which is February 25th – as a sort of goodwill gesture. Sort of like “Hey I showed up here, I didn’t know it was an issue, I’m leaving. Blah blah blah.” I believe one of the things Ms. Carter said was I had the training, the physical capacity to do anything I want. If I was tracking Ms. Carter, I could do so easily. Technically it is not hard to track an individual if you know their home culture. Some time with Google is how I found Mr. Balmer. I just googled his name: “Kevin Balmer, Portland Oregon” and found out he was a GIS systems analyst you know, over there. I walked into the main desk and asked “which one of these buildings does Kevin Balmer work in?” They told me “this building here.” So it is not hard to find someone on the net. I mention that because I want to establish that if I had wanted to find Ms. Carter, I certainly could have, and she has already indicated that I certainly could, and I have not: for years and years. Even when I see her accidentally around town, it’s none of my business. After I left tribe I thought that well, it’s been a lot of years. Obviously Ms. Carter saw me, so I tried to send another letter to her care of the attorney, which bounced. After I received this one back I decided Mr. Balmer was involved in this whether he wanted to be or not, based on his interaction with me. So what I decided I would do was I would send a letter to Mr. Balmer for Ms. Carter and I would let him determine what her mental state was – if it was appropriate for her to see it or not. Having done that and not sure if Mr. Balmer would take this as a threat, I decided that the least the least threatening place I could possibly contact Mr. Balmer would be in a public space during daylight hours, in the morning as he was arriving to work. That would be the least threatening thing I could do. Obviously if I showed up at his house and they were living together, which they apparently are, that would be seen as more threatening. So I met him as described. Immediately after meeting with Mr. Balmer, on pages two and three of the documentation, these are my immediate recollections of the conversation with Mr. Balmer. I basically asked him his name and if he wanted to have lunch. I explained that I was apparently more of a fixture in Ms. Carter’s life than I wanted to be. I gave him my card and told him he would be receiving a letter that I wanted him to make a judgment about whether to give to Ms. Carter or not and then gave him my card and left.
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And if you want to take a chance to look at this. Mr. Balmer can check it for, if it matches his recollection of the conversation. And the letter I had sent to Mr. Balmer’s house, that letter was never picked up.
THE COURT: Okay. Something you mention in this letter on page two three, yeah, bottom of page 2, beginning of page 3, it’s a question I was going to ask you anyway. It looks like he actually asked you that in the parking lot. Um, why didn’t you, if you really wanted to talk to him why didn’t you talk to him on tribe?
MR. BOWMAN: I had left tribe at that point. This conversation took place on, I’m sorry I just gave Mr., Balmer my copy. This conversation took place I believe on St Patrick’s Day and I had left tribe almost a month before. The sequence was…
THE COURT: Why were you trying to contact him after you left tribe? I’m confused.
Mr. BOWMAN: I’m sorry. I had left tribe on Ms. Carter’s birthday and I sent a letter to her care of her attorney after that so she would know why I left tribe. There is one sentence, it’s on page four, it says basically it’s time to stop being afraid and that letter came back to me. It’s after this letter, after I left tribe, when that letter came back to me is when I decided to try through Mr. Balmer. Because um, I, I don’t have any reason to doubt that Ms. Carter is fearful. I don’t think Ms. Carter has any rational reason to be fearful um, and, and it bothers me that she is fearful. And I have had to work through a lot of stuff over the past two years around the death of my brother. I had a lot of guilt about that. I had a lot of issues around um, Ms, Carter’s, um, not necessarily her involvement in my brother’s death but what I perceived as her abandonment of me in a particularly difficult time in my life. I had had to work extra hard to work through those issues without any sort of assistance from Ms. Carter and I believe she has a lot of issues around this as well. That if she is afraid of me she has to work with it. I believe that Ms Carter perceives Mr. Balmer, Mr. Balmer um, as protection um, and with his picture, you know with the pistol and whatnot, perhaps perceived himself as protection. As Ms. Carter says, one of the main things that needs to happen when you are violent with someone is you need to dehumanize them. So by meeting with Mr. Balmer directly I humanized myself. I opened up he was trying to have some sort of interaction with me with pictures, inviting me to his film and whatnot. I made it easier for him to do that and I felt like I had fulfilled my, um, I guess, moral obligation to try and reach out with compassion to Ms. Carter <inaudible>. Trusting Mr. Balmer to make the decision if she wrote me back because as I told Mr. Balmer I don’t want to be cold but Ms Carter isn’t really my problem. I would like her to have a good life. She psychologically doesn’t want me around.
THE COURT: Mm-hmm.
MR. BOWMAN: So that was the nature of my interaction with Mr. Balmer. My attempt to contact Ms. Carter has been as unthreatening as I can make them: postal letters to mutual acquaintances. It would not be technically difficult for me to find out her home address or find out you know where she works and things like that. Private investigators do stuff like that all the time; process servers do it all the time, but I have not done that over all these years. When I thought Mr. Balmer engaged me I contacted Mr. Balmer. That Mr. Balmer decided not to, decided to go to Ms. Carter immediately about that and freak out Ms. Carter, is unfortunate, but I think it was Mr. Balmer’s decision. I don’t think that anything I can say will assuage Ms. Carter’s fears. I believe that her fears are her fears and there is not much I can do about it. When people have conspiracy theories they have a cognitive bias, that they only see things that reinforce the theory and they don’t see things that disprove the theory. If Ms. Carter has decided that I am an evil genius who is stalking her and planning to kill her boyfriend with a shovel, my saying “I didn’t do it” isn’t going to make a difference.
A. When I was an elementary school teacher I was accused of stealing money; I was accused of diddling little girls; I was accused of diddling little boys. I mean, and I found out a long time ago that when you are accused of something the best thing you can do is to just be quiet and trust the system is working. That is what I am doing here. I can’t make Ms. Carter be less afraid but I don’t think I’ve done anything to make a reasonable person to be fearful given the circumstances and my ability. I certainly have the ability but I have no motivation and I think I’ve proven that over the years by, you know, keeping a clean criminal record and being involved <inaudible>, I mean I taught middle school. If I lost my patience easily it would have happened <inaudible> (chuckle). And I certainly did lose my patience teaching middle school but I didn’t kill anybody with a shovel and I think that’s the gist of it. And I don’t deny that Ms. Carter is authentically fearful I would just assert it is unreasonable and I have done nothing to intentionally make her so fearful. And I have no, there is nothing I could threaten her or force her into doing. So…
THE COURT: Cross examination?
MR. CALLAHAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. CALLAHAN:
Q. So, um, in 1999 a judge told you to have no contact with Ms, Carter, is that correct?
A. No. A judge gave me a verbal instruction if I had anything to say to Ms. Carter to do so through her lawyer.
Q. Am I not remembering your testimony correctly? I thought you said that the judge told you to have no contact.
A. I don’t remember, but the gist of it was that he told me not to be a jerk, to return the key to her car and if I had anything to say to Ms. Carter to do so through her lawyer.
Q. And he wanted you to return the key to her car because you had taken that without her permission.
A. That is correct. As part of my…
Q. I think you characterized it as you stole her car.
A. Sarcasm on my part. It was hyperbole.
Q. I’m taking a look through the documents you provided and there have to be at least half dozen places where you say that you know that that Ms. Carter wants nothing to do with you. Is that correct?
A. No. What half dozen places are you going to? Is there a line number?
Q. How about page 2 of 4 line 83 “it would make her uncomfortable if I were to contact her directly.”
A. Correct.
Q. So you knew that direct contact would make her uncomfortable
A. I assumed so, yes. And at this point also I am talking to someone I am trying to humanize myself to because I didn’t know what he had been told about me.
Q. Page 2, line 116
A. OK
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Q. “I think that you and she and the entire world would be better off if she wasn’t freaking out about shit she doesn’t need to freak out about.” I think you were talking about her freaking out about you, correct?
A. Yes, under the assumption that her response on the 4th of December with the Portland thing was not a histrionic stunt but was authentic fear.
Q. Ok, so you know that she was afraid of you?
A. I think she may have been and my general point in that conversation was the world would be a better place if people were not fearful. I think the current political climate encourages fear to encourage political control. And I think the world would be a better place if people were not afraid of things that are irrational.
Q. Regarding respondent’s exhibit 102, the photo of Mr. Balmer. You responded that given your background that you didn’t think there was really much of a threat that he could make to you. Is that…
A. I have faced down guns in person, so having a fellow post a picture of himself with a gun on the internet that may or may not be pointed at me shows me something about his mental state but I don’t think I had reason to be fearful.
Q. What did you mean when you said, “given my background”?
A. I have some experience with martial arts and I have worked security and various other things, I am more or less comfortable around guns and when faced with weapons.
Q. Do you own any weapons?
A. I do not own any pistols. I have a compound bow for hunting elk. I have a black powder rifle for hunting deer and I have a .22 because cleaning a black powder rifle is annoying and it is easier to practice with a .22. So yes I do own weapons but…
Q. Have you ever been in the military?
A. Yes.
Q. What branch were you in in the military?
A. The United States Army.
Q. In what capacity?
A. I joined under the delayed entry plan, to be part of an unassigned Ranger group.
Q. And what was your termination with the military?
A. At that point, it was during the Reagan administration, and it was my belief that we were going to go into Central America and I expressed that I would not go and I was given an administrative discharge.
Q. When you talked about Ms. Carter’s post on tribe regarding the person that had arrived you said you were surprised that she would talk so publicly about you?
A. She didn’t use my name.
Q. How did you know if it was about you?
A. I assumed it was about me.
Q. You said you left tribe on Ms. Carter’s birthday, February 25?
A. Yea, actually February 24th because I go to bed fairly early.
Q. What does leave mean when you say you left the tribe?
A. Tribe, like MySpace or a variety of other services, you sign up. And when you sign up you have an ID. At any point you can be kicked off because you are a jerk or you can terminate your account for whatever reason. And so I terminated my account which basically got me off there and off the boards.
Q. Why does your summary say February 6th?
A. It was February of this year – February 06. I am sorry those are months and years.
Q. Oh, Oh. I see.
A. Sorry. It’s military style.
Q. Thank you. Can you tell me if you’ve ever seen this document before? You might know who the author is.
A. Uh, yes. This is a document I posted on the masculinity board. A number of, tribe has various boards to the effect of say if people are interesting in Macintosh computers or small business development or whatnot, around there. This was one on masculinity and there was an issue where a number of people had expressed heartbreak and problems with relationships on the boards and in their personal lives and so I had written this sort of meditative piece that men should think about as they are dealing with romantic disappointment and I posted that there with the heading “unsolicited advice.”
Q. And this is not listing your name in any way. You had a different moniker did you not?
A. No. This printout you have um: when you leave the service all of your entries, well I don’t know for sure, but your entries that have had responses remain but your logo goes away.
Q. So, you only had one identity on tribe?
A. Yes.
Q. And your testimony is that that identity terminated on February 24th?
A. Yes. And began in mid-November.
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Q. Was your intent when you sent the letter to Mr. Balmer to make a communication with Ms, Carter?
A. My intent when I sent the letter was to establish myself as a real human being to Mr. Balmer because the other reading of that situation, where she had a very public appeal on December 4 and he changed his avatar to the pointing pistol is that Ms. Balmer, um, excuse me, Ms. Carter might be using me as a tool in her relationship with Mr. Balmer. This is based on certain other behaviors with Ms. Carter I’ve seen in the past. Where in times of, when she gets afraid, people help her, and it helps her cement her social position. I thought I might be being used as a way to hold on and manipulate Mr. Balmer. Having been on the other end of such manipulation, when the man in question didn’t contact me, I was not happy.
Q. So, if I understand you correctly, your testimony is that you think that Ms. Carter was using her relationship with you or her characterization of her relationship with you in order to manipulate her relationship with Mr. Balmer.
A. Nooo. That is one possible reading. That was suggested to me by someone who knew Ms. Carter and I.
Q. I took a look at uh, exhibit 103, respondent’s exhibit 103 which is uh, your characterization of the conversation you had with Mr. Balmer in the parking lot.
A. Yes
Q. Um, did you tape record this?
A. No, that would be illegal in Oregon.
Q. Because it seems to be very detailed and um,
A. It is very detailed.
Q. And you did this all from memory?
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A. It is very detailed because I had practiced approximately what I was going to say. I made the notes immediately after our conversation. I literally went back to my car where my laptop was and made the notes. And the main things I was paying attention to were odd phrasing on Mr. Balmer’s part and the sequence in which I covered my points.
Q. Then on page 4 of the same exhibit…
A. Yes. These would be the two letters that I tried to send to Ms. Carter. This is the letter I tried to send to Ms Carter via her attorney as per the previous judge’s instruction and the letter I sent to Mr. Balmer to decide whether to give it to Mr. Carter or not.
Q. So he letter you sent, the letter you sent via Ms. Carter’s attorney had one sentence.
A. Yes.
Q. “It’s time to stop being afraid”?
A. Yes.
Q. So you knew she was afraid?
A. If she was afraid I was conveying that there was no need to be afraid.
Q. It seems to indicate that you knew that she was afraid.
A. The terrible assumption in this situation is to assume that she was afraid.
Q. And yet, in spite of the judge’s suggestion that you not contact her, in spite of the suggestion that you contact her through an attorney in spite of all of the information that you had that she did not want to talk to you and that she was making great efforts to avoid having any contact with you, you went ahead and sent her a letter knowing she was fearful of you?
A. No, I contacted Mr. Balmer who I thought might be told all sorts of stories about me that might make him do something…
Q. I’m talking about the letter you sent to her attorney, on page 4 of exhibit 103, that contains one sentence, “it’s time to stop being afraid.”
A. Yes.
Q. You sent that to her attorney with the intent of it reaching Ms. Carter, correct?
A. Uh, that would be my hope. But my experience was that the attorney no longer existed and the letter was probably going to end up in a dead letter office somewhere.
Q. Have you ever been on antidepressants?
A. Yes I have.
Q. When was the last time you were on antidepressants?
A. I am still on antidepressants.
Q. Have you gone off those medications for any period of time in the last five years?
A. No I have not.
Q. You’ve taken them according to the prescription?
A. Yes I have. And at various points, for those who are not familiar with meds, at various points as your condition improves you try and lower the dosage in combination with the supervision of a doctor according to a stepped plan. So the dosage has fluctuated under a doctor’s guidance as I am moving towards getting off of them.
Q. I should tell you both that I do hear about mental health related cases quite a bit. Was the diagnosis bipolar or was it clinical depression?
A. It was severe clinical depression, episodic related to various things such as the suicide of my brother.
Q. Is there different types?
A. Yeah.
Q. Because you hear, use that term all the time.
A. Yes. I don’t have the exact ICD-9 code.
Q. Ok. Yea I, there are just different types.
A. Thank goodness
Q. You have made various attempts to contact Ms. Carter through her parents at times?
A. I sent a package of items that she asked me to send to her father which was marked with return to sender before my imprudent fit. And I sent the birthday letter in February of 2003.
Q. Okay, and is that the envelope you sent the letter in?
A. Yes.
Q. And is this the letter?
A. I would assume so. It’s the same as [exhibit] 103. Page 1 is the text of the letter.
Q. Ok. And in that you acknowledge that you are causing Ms. Carter anxiety?
A. Do you have a line number?
Q. It doesn’t correspond. I am reading from the original. Second paragraph… Uh, “it makes me realize how much free flowing anxiety I was carrying around”?
A. Uh, yes.
Q. And you, in the same paragraph toward the end, you talk about the emotional effects of drug use, including antidepressants?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you been using drugs other than antidepressants? Street drugs?
A. No.
Q. What did you mean when you said, “I believe that drug use (even anti-depressants) in some sense freezes emotional and other development?”
A. Are you asking me about my own drug use?
Q. Yes I am.
A. No, I was not using drugs.
Q. What were you referring to?
A. I was making a reference to Ms. Carter, that she may or may not have paid attention to, and which I would rather not discuss in open court.
Q. So, in this letter of 19 February 2003, third paragraph back side – and again I am reading from the original so it doesn’t correspond – did you invite her to make contact with you perhaps on her birthday?
A. Yes
Q. So, Did she ever do that?
A. No.
Q. And what did you read into the absence of her contact?
A. That she wasn’t ready or wasn’t the sort of person who would do that. People are different.
MR. CALLAHAN: Your Honor, I would like to offer this into evidence…
THE COURT: Will you stipulate that this is the same as Respondent’s exhibit?
MR. CALLAHAN: No, I have not had a chance to compare them.
(Petitioner’s Exhibit 2 marked)
THE COURT: I see what you mean. This seems, this seems to be a typed version of the other one.
MR. BOWMAN: My custom is to write them out long hand and then to type them out.
(Petitioner’s Exhibit 2 received into evidence)
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Q. So, in spite of the message that Ms. Carter sent out on tribe that you assumed was related to you in November of 05.
A. She sent out the message in December of 05.
Q. And you assumed it was related to you, where she asked all of her acquaintances not to give out her contact information, you went ahead and continued to try to contact her, correct?
A. No.
Q. You went ahead and contacted Mr. Balmer attempting to interact with him regarding his relationship with her?
A. I interacted with Mr. Balmer based on his change of icon on his theoretical threat to me, not knowing what he was being told about me, and to humanize me to him so it didn’t need to turn into something stupid. That didn’t need to be fearful reagarding me. I contacted Mr. Balmer on my own behalf in the hopes that it would make Mr. Balmer’s life simpler, based on his contact with me. And I did so in a nonthreatening way. It was nonthreatening by design. When I contacted Mr. Balmer I was wearing shorts, sandals, and a t-shirt…
Q. How did you know that Mr. Balmer would be there that morning?
A. I had googled him. On the first page of results I noticed that he was a GIS analyst there. Based on that I walked into the main desk and asked which building he worked in. And they told me.
Q. What time did you walk in and ask them where he worked?
A. I went in Monday morning; first thing Monday morning on whatever that date that was…the 17th?
Q. What time?
A. Um, ballpark around 9:10
Q. Ok so, on the day that you made contact with Mr. Balmer were you waiting for him?
A. Um, on the 17th? Yes
Q. How long did you wait?
A. I was waiting approximately 35-40 minutes.
Q. How did you recognize him?
A. I had seen him at the film thing. There were pictures on tribe, but the way I recognized him that morning was from having seen him at the film thing.
Q. Nothing further at this…oh, wait a minute. Um, did you send another package to Ms. Carter um, this?
MR. BOWMAN: <Laughing over Mr. Callahan>
A. Uh, yes.
Q. And is that content what you had sent in the mail?
A. I assume so. I assume so. Um , this is a , um, what this is is basically, I am not sure what day it was, it had probably been, I am not sure what the date was, the postmark is unreadable.
THE COURT: Do you know what year?
MR. CALLAHAN: 2003, I believe, Your Honor.
MR. BOWMAN: I believe it was earlier than that.
MR. CALLAHAN: He is correct. The postmark is hard to read.
MR. BOWMAN: If you have a computer you can, you should be able to look at the file itself, the metadata.
THE COURT: I don’t have a CD drive
THE COURT: But both sides agree it is several years old?
MR. CALLAHAN and MR. BOWMAN: Yeah
Q. And again, the return address that you put on it is not your own, is that correct?
A. Yes, that was us, that was, I am not sure that may have been the earlier incident. It was well before the 1999 thing. It’s basically…
Q. But the return address, did you ever live in Delmar, California?
A. No, that is her father’s address.
Q. That you put on as the return address for the package that you sent?
A. Yes.
Q. And what was your intent with that?
A. My intent is that if it were to be refused it would end up with her.
MR. CALLAHAN: We’d ask this be admitted as well, Your Honor. Is it 3?
THE COURT: Yes.
(Petitioner’s Exhibit 3 marked and received into evidence)
A. And that address actually came off of a card that Mr. Carter, at that address, had sent to my mother care of Ms. Carter. So it was established from both sides.
Q. OK. Nothing further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Does that complete our evidence or are there any…
MR. CALLAHAN: Can I have a moment, Your Honor?
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. CALLAHAN: We recall Mr. Balmer.
THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Balmer, you are still under oath.
A. Okay
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RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CALLAHAN:
Q. Mr. Balmer, I am handing you been marked Respondent’s exhibit 102, it appears to be a photograph of you in a cowboy hat and a gun?
A. Yes, uh, that’s a toy gun.
Q. Can you approximate when that photograph was taken?
A. That photograph was probably taken in January of 2004.
Q. When you posted it as your icon on tribe.net did you have any intention of sending a message to Mr. Bowman?
A. No I did not. I actually used this photograph as an avatar um, off and on through the last couple of years. I’ve been a member of the tribe.net since December of 2003. This was amongst my first photographs that I was using.
MR. CALLAHAN: Nothing further, Your Honor.
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. BOWMAN:
Q. Are you asserting that that is a toy gun?
A. It is a toy gun.
Q. It’s not a Smith and Wesson 357 police special like one pictured elsewhere on your profile?
A. No, it’s not the same. It’s not.
Q. And, but you do have pictures of yourself with a real gun on tribe.net, is that correct?
A. Uh, that’s correct.
MR. BOWMAN: Nothing further.
THE COURT: Okay. Are you done with your evidence then? Are both sides done with their evidence then?
MR. CALLAHAN: Petitioner rests, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay, then I’ll hear brief argument. You don’t need to argue long but if there is anything you want to summarize you are welcome to do that.
CLOSING ARGUMENT
MR. CALLAHAN: Thank you Your Honor. I think there is a tremendous amount of evidence that’s before the court that respondent made repeated unwanted contact with the petitioner, that he knew it was unwanted, that he knew that it alarmed the petitioner. And furthermore, as the court knows, you are allowed to consider the full range of the relationship of the parties and given that I think that the evidence is strong that a reasonable person in petitioner’s stead would be rationally afraid of the respondent. Um, she has made as a strong a message as possible in 1999 by trying to get a stalking order before to which the respondent stated that he didn’t quite understand that his behavior was inappropriate. I think there has been, there have been numerous messages sent to respondent that petitioner doesn’t want anything to do with him directly, through third parties, boyfriends, letters to parents, through any way. And yet he persists in attempting to make these contacts and the petitioner is truly frightened of him. I believe it to be a reasonable fear and I ask that you place the order in effect and continue. I don’t think he gets it and I don’t know what other avenues petitioner has to protect herself.
RESPONSE
MR. BOWMAN: Based on Ms. Carter’s visceral reaction to seeing me I believe she is authentically afraid. I don’t believe she has a reason to be authentically afraid. Portland is not a huge place. As she has indicated and I’ve indicated, I have seen her around town and in various places, and her boyfriend on purpose, including on tribe and some other places like that. I have no reason to think <inaudible>. There is nothing I could convince her to do for me or give me. Since my brother’s death by suicide I’ve spent a lot of time, I’ve logged probably literally hundreds of hours in therapy, I’ve been on medication for a long time. I’ve worked through a lot of issues around Ms. Carter and this entire thing and, if I were a danger, I think my clean record, my professional history and just my life shows I don’t have impulse control problems. I am doing well with my business, I’m reasonably functional. If I wanted, if I meant for Ms. Carter to be harmed, I don’t think a reasonable person would think I couldn’t do it, that I was incapable of it. When she first brought me here in in 1999 I was confused, and then I was kind of insulted that she thought I was morally that type of person, and that I was technically not good enough to do it if I wanted to. And now, I don’t think it’s about me and I don’t think that I am a danger to anyone. And I don’t think it is reasonable for Ms. Carter to be afraid of me. I will continue to avoid Ms. Carter as I do around town anyway. But basically what Ms, Carter wants me to do is stop existing and not being in the city of my birth. I back away when I see her and I’ve been doing that for the last seven years. I don’t think there is anything I can do to assuage Ms, Carter of her fear. Obviously if I were hunting her I wouldn’t do so in any of the ways she suggests. I don’t believe or think a reasonable person would be afraid of me in these circumstance s and this has a lot more to do with Ms Carter’s psychological state than with me or my actions.
FINDINGS AND ORDER
THE COURT: This is an interesting case and it does have a lot of history around it. I think if I had only hear about the last two years or the past three or four years I wouldn’t be making the decision I am but I think based on the entire history it is justified to get a permanent stalking order. A stalking order is kind of interesting. It requires on the one hand that I look at the petitioner’s frame of mind then it also includes the respondent’s frame of mind. Mr. Callahan stated that he doesn’t think that the respondent gets it. I think this case is a good example of how people can misread what is going on. I think his intentions may not be all that malicious at all. But based on all the history it is hard for somebody in her position to not be in apprehension of of of some future event. I think the average person might not see, read into it this, were they not aware of all this history. Um, but for example I think that on the other hand that Mr. Bowman is misreading things on petitioner’s boyfriend’s part. This 102 is a good example of that where it is easy to see a picture like this of somebody pointing a gun as someone being threatening. That makes it all the more incongruous as to why you would be contacting this person. If you think they are threatening you then why does he go ahead and contact him. And why does he need to surreptitiously point out where he works. If his real intention was to be innocuous he would have dropped off a letter at the boyfriend’s place of work instead of waiting for him in the parking lot. So I think it is really easy to misread people’s intentions but the bottom line is, based on the history, she does have reason to be fearful, that there is reason to be alarmed, of course. That a reasonable person aware of the background would be fearful of these attempts to contact her indirectly and I think the judge in 1999 was attempting to suggest that if there is any reason to have contact just to exchange property back in 1999 then the logical way to do that is through the lawyer so there isn’t any problem, but many, many, years later to continue to try to make contact is inappropriate so I am granting the order. It’s a very interesting, a different type of factual situation but I think that based on the background I’ve heard it is appropriate to enter the judgment. Now, the statute says these judgments are good for a lifetime. And that makes it difficult as a judge to make decisions like this because we don’t always want to enter these lifetime orders, but there is a recent case that says a person can come back after a sufficient passage of time and ask that this order be rescinded. I am glad to hear that Mr. Bowman is getting some therapy. Certainly that is something I would consider if anybody asked me to reconsider an order but I would think it would be not appropriate to come back for at least several more years. But if things really do in fact settle down on both their parts, it is not impossible to undo these orders. But, at this point it’s, it’s permanent.
MR. BOWMAN: Uh, a question…
THE COURT: Yes sir.
MR. BOWMAN: Before my brother committed suicide I was working as a school teacher and my background is in criminal justice and so forth. At some point in the future I may need to have a background check and things like that related to getting a federal firearms license or things like that. How can this affect my status as far as background checks and things like that?
THE COURT: I really don’t know. I know people are concerned about it. The order may show up in some types of records checks as to what effect the authorities might have on that I don’t know. It is not a conviction. It’s not a judgment in terms of a finding of some sort of wrongdoing…its only, it’s like a restraining order.
MR. BOWMAN: So when would be an appropriate time when I, for example, if I decided to go back to teaching I need to have a pristine criminal record, should I come back to court at that time?
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THE COURT: There is a possibility of doing that. I suggest the logical way to do that because you should not contact the other side is to contact Mr. Callahan, not anybody else. Let him know you want to come back to court and have a hearing and that way there can be a way the petitioner can find out about that and not be served directly by a process server or something. The lawyer can act as intermediary and that’s a lot less stress on her.
MR. BOWMAN: Will Mr. Callahan be around five years from now?
THE COURT: Oh, I’m sure.
MR. CALLAHAN: That’s a good question. <laughing>
MR. BOWMAN: Okay. Ms. Cooper seemed to be pretty…
THE COURT: She’s still around. She’s still around…That’s why I was pretty surprised when you said she was out of practice now. She, she’s at <inaudible> right down the street so…
MR. BOWMAN: Things were returned undeliverable from the address…
THE COURT: Yeah, people move, but that’s the reason the bar keeps track of addresses so if lawyers change their office you can always find the lawyer. Um, but I think there is enough history here that that you’re getting some help and maybe she can get some help as well.
MR. BOWMAN: Oh, I got my help a long time ago. Now, would Mr. Callahan be willing or would petitioner be willing to consider, to be amenable to that sort of thing in the future?
THE COURT: There’s no way of saying that today. That’s why I am saying the only way a judge, at least I personally, if I had somebody ask that’s the first thing I would ask “What’s changed since the last hearing? What’s changed for each side that’s appropriate? I have had cases where I have rescinded the order. I had one the other day where the people had been apart for 10 years, they lived in different states, and they both, they both agreed. I’ve had other cases where they disagree. But, generally speaking, these are final and permanent.
MR. BOWMAN: And I would ask that the petitioner, if she does leave the state, let me know I can get it rescinded for Oregon. Because obviously if I get an FFL or I need to get a BPST number, things like that…
THE COURT: Well, Again, I would not want you to contact her in any way. The lawyer is the logical point of contact. We are giving the exhibits back to the parties but I want emphasize that both parties have the right to appeal and if there is to be an appeal we will need all the exhibits back so, please keep everything as it is with the exhibit stickers on, and if either side does appeal you will have to return your exhibits to the court. Thank you.
MR. CALLAHAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
ELECTRONIC RECORDING FIRST TRANSCRIBED BY JENNIFER ZAMMETTI
